But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. So give us a call now. Patrick Tate: Yes. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. I don't know if she still is. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. Something along those lines. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. I tracked cats and all the western states. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Less successful males roam further. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. I'm Peter B yellow. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Absolutely. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Let us know your story and share your photos! Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Part II. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Have it reported down in the Keene area. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. And those are not the same things. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. Peter Biello: Yeah. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. Is this kind of a typical story. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. And the cougar embodies that. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Can we go to the site. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Good morning guys. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. John is calling from Bennington. So so. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". Do cougars live in New England? NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Administrative Links. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Mountain Lions in NH. Well they are the same. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. It's bigger but bigger and better world. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction 3,207 views Jul 31, 2019 78 Dislike Share Save New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife 634 subscribers During my thirty-one career at the New. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. brings a lot of. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Patrick Tate: Yes. One was in Shelton. So what those ranges. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. They absolutely do. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Caller: Absolutely. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. They kill big animals. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. That's too big for Bobcat. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. You don't know what's going on. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. So they're scary. No doubt in my mind it was. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Thank you. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. And so. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Rick your thoughts. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Mountain lions live in the state. Thanks for your call. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody.