108 vs 110 lobe separation 108 vs 110 lobe separation

If that accessory still does not assist the cam in producing enough vacuum, then as a last resort you can use a vacuum pump. The tighter the lobe center, the lower the RPM range; the wider the lobe center, the higher the RPM range. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. But to choose the perfect cam, all of that information needs understanding. It produces peak torque earliercoming on quicker and strongerbut also it falls off quicker too. When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. The reduced rate of the EGR effect lowers oxygen circulation in the engines combustion chamber. Whatever you do, stay under 270 advertised duration and shoot for a 110 lobe separation. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. 05 To ensure our stroker combo had sufficient airflow, we installed a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC-ported LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. Well, it is quite a natural event that you may not find the lope separation angle mentioned at the engine body. As a result of this fall, the idle of the engine has to face suffering quite often. 3.75" stroke= 108 LSA 4.00" stroke= 110 LSA 4.25" stroke= 112 LSA 4.50" stroke= 114 LSA I can see exactly where his theory is coming from. (You can find an instructional video of how to do just that on our Clay Smith Cams YouTube Channel;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s ). The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is comparatively a wider LSA; it can generate a massive amount of RPM for the engine. you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. With minimal overlap and a steady manifold vacuum signal, they work great with fuel-injection systems and are the norm on modern pushrod engines, such as the LS and Gen III hemi. AquaTraction Vs SeaDek: Which One Is Better For you? However it is at the expense of a small amount of bottom end power and idle quality, due to the increased overlap. 110 LSA: Oppositely, the cylinder pressure is comparatively lower at 110 LSA than at 106 LSA. To overcome this inherent problem in wide LSA camshafts, you simply need a higher-flowing intake port. A cam with a tighter LSA will require a looser torque converter, may not be able to run vacuum-assisted brakes, and doesn't play nice with fuel injection. by randy331 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:00 pm, Post 110 LSA: On the contrary, it is pretty unpleasant to inform you that the efficient compression rate decreases at 110 LSA. It is an important note you must keep; due to the lobe separation angle, there creates an overlapping of intake valve opening time and exhaust valve closing time and vice versa. An icon used to represent a menu that can be toggled by interacting with this icon. If a street car has smaller lift and duration numbers, they might run 112 or 114. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. Selecting a camshaft for a given engines purpose usually involves a compromise between low- or high-end power options, and the lobe separation angle (LSA) is one of those factors where engine builders have to make a choice between those priorities. Engine builders Chuck Lawrence, left, and Doug Patton. by ANT Thu May 15, 2003 6:44 pm, Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. We even treated them to some chamber work before installation. To establish the position of each lobe, the traditional reference point is where the lobes reach max lift. You are using an out of date browser. NOTE: Classic Inlines stocks the above profiles in 108, 110, and 112 lobe centers. by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post A cam's lobe separation determines where and for how long peak torque occurs in an engine's rpm range. Lobe sepsration is an advanced description for overlap.If you take a cam on a 112,and grind it on a 108,you add more overlap,the time the valves are both open.Narrower lobe centers mean more low end and midrange torque,along with a peakier powerband,and a slightly rougher idle.Tradeoffs are sensitivity to octane ratings,total timing, and air fuel ratio.A lot to swallow I know,hope this helps you. It idles very well at 650 rpm with a nice lope and runs strong. Most cars use more than, Read More Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? As a result, you can enjoy a pleasing engine outcome. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. That lopey idle that is universally loved, and part of the allure of a tight LSA cam, is actually misfire caused from a combination of exhaust dilution in the intake manifold and poor cylinder filling at idle. 06 The ported heads featured a 2.165/1.590-inch valve combo. A 110-degree lobe separation angle means that the peak opening points of the intake and exhaust lobes are 110 degrees apart. The extra cubic inches will smooth out a rough idle in a 327. This is ground into the cam and can't be changed without changing cams. Elle concerne 264 taxons des degrs divers. 114LSA +4 puts the intake centerline at 110 degrees before top dead center. Next up was the 112-degree cam, which actually lost out in peak power slightly to the 120-degree cam, but offered considerably more torque. Read More Chevy 350 Ignition Coil Location And Everything About ThemContinue, What causes a car to bog down when accelerating? You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. The 402-inch LS2/LS3 hybrid stroker started out with an LS2 aluminum block. 4 Impaired episodic memory and semantic knowledge are common in TLE, although dysexecutive traits . Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? A forum community dedicated to Ford performance owners and enthusiasts. Idle vacuum showed a considerable spike to 14.7 in-Hg, likely the difference between being able to run power brakes and a mandatory leg workout. If the intake valve opens too early, it will push the new charge into the intake manifold. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. When you don't have any overlap, you can't have any wave tuning. The lobe separation angle is the angle between the two camshaft lobes that act on the valves. Powerband serves a massive contribution to the acceleration car. 110 LSA: On the contrary, 110LSA has a higher piston-to-valve clearance rate. This is one of the many reasons why Clay Smith Cams always recommends degreeing your camshaft in using the Lobe Center Method. This form of short-term memory is supported by the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and is believed to rely on the ability of selectively tuned pyramidal neuron networks to persist in firing even after a to-be-remembered stimulus is removed from the environment. 110 LSA: But here, quite surprisingly, you have to face the reduction of the EGR effect due to the 110 LSA. 108 is very tight producing lower vacuum and more of a 2 stroke "punch" powerband. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. BUT, 114 will have more vacuum at idle, which will work better with some fuelinjection. by ANT Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm, Post Cylinder-head flow and LSA are directly related: as a rule of thumb, the better the head flows, the wider the LSA can be. The 290 advertised duration and 114 lobe separation would contribute to a lazy power curve. by Marc Mon May 12, 2003 11:38 am, Post This process slows down the reaction rates of the air-fuel mixture, causing temperatures to drop and preventing the engine from overheating. somthing to that aspect. Howards Cams Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Camshaft and Lifter Kits CL120325-08. And better gas mileage. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. As the RPM's go up this is not as critical as the higher velocity of the air/fuel moving thru keeps it from getting contaminated. by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:38 pm, Post The intake air control valve (IAC), which regulates idle speed, also has to work overtime and often attempts to "catch" the idle, but usually shoots high or low. As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. Simply put, both 106 and 110 lobe separation angles have many advantages and disadvantages. A lower efficient compression rate leads to a higher fuel consumption rate by your engine to produce higher power. 110 LSA: But, contrarily, at 110 LSA, you dont have to face the problem of engine knocking. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. Test 1 was easy. 108 Lobe Separation These are my motors specs 1979 - 347 Stroker 10:1 Compression Holley 670 Street Avenger or a Holley 650 (I have both) Roush 200 Cylinder Heads (minor head work) 1.6 Roller Rockers Shorty BBK Headers 373 Rear End 5 Speed Transmission Cross Gap Intake (Power Band 1500-6500) FlowMaster Dual Exhaust (of course no Cats) MSD 6Al The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes. It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. Aug 20, 2006. The world of fuel injection is where wide LSA cams like the 113 really shine. Performance Distributors Keeps The Spark Alive With SOS, A New Diesel Piston That Increases Power And Reduces, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop, Melling Offers New Timing Kits for Ford 4.6L and 5.4L SOHC, Reborn Retro Blower Packs Positive-Displacement Power For Fox, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing Lb-In Torque, Why You Should NOT Emissions Delete Your Diesel, Can A Cold Air Intake Really Help Your Trucks, Ask The Expert: We Want Your Questions For Canton Racing, The Answers: DeatschWerks Responses To Your Fuel System, SEMA 2022: GEARWRENCH Leveled Up With Distinct Quality Hand, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing AN Wrench, HOLY SHIP! Before we all start suffering from separation anxiety, we need to understand what lobe separation angle actually is and then how it affects your engine. The intake lobe centerline is measured in crankshaft degrees. Everyone has a different idea of gentle.While its true that the duntov cam may seem rough in a 283 it is still a factory offering and they never go to radical on there profiles for street cars.If you want a rough idle, try a 283 with a .550'lift roller and 13.5 to 1 compression,THATS ROUGH. Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main Culprit, Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything], Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? Pick the cam with the valve timing events that fit the engine best, forget about LSA, it is only a result of the events. Well, If I am not mistaken, you must be looking for which angle has what impact on your engine or which would be the best. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. I don't think your duration figures are too outlandish and with the tight LCA and high lift, it should make some big torque. pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. Nothing makes mouths drop like a car that sounds and looks like it can't keep it self still! It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. 09 All testing was run through a set of 1 3/4-inch long-tube headers and 3-inch exhaust. Higher overlapping lets less oil fall through the oil inlet. When degreeing in the camshaft, you are making sure the intake centerline is precisely where the cam is intended to be. Simply put, the lobe center of the camshaft controls where the power curve is applied. The other thing is that you need to tune your ignition advance to maximize your performance. My lift will be about .580" intake and exhaust, with about 230/236 duration with a 1.7 rocker ratio, utilizing a Jesel shaft rocker system. The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. Anybody here run a 108 LSA? It a 355. thanks in advance. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. probably just enough to get me in trouble.. A 112 LSA would be better if I had an automatic, but the engine builder (who has built many, many drag racing engines)told me I would have much faster acceleration with the 108, at the expense of a broader power band of course, but that 108 would not unduly penalize me for the street. The article was called "Separation of Power" and they tested 5 cams ranged from 106 to 114 LSA. I though my car would have a nice rough idle with the solid cam with a tight LSA I put in my car, its go a slight lope to it, but it pulls hard. But, the internal processings are much more complicated. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 by xstfudonniex Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm, Post I bet you won't see a bit of difference. If you compared these two cams side by side in identical engines, the first cam would actually have a slightly better idle and would produce slightly more peak power at upper RPM's. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Supercharged and nitrous race engines typically benefit from a wider LSA because they dont require as much overlap for exhaust scavenging as does the naturally aspirated engine, continues Bolander. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. LSA is the distance from the centerline of the intake lobe to the centerline of exhaust lobe. After consulting with many experts, you are still in confusion between 106 and 110- lobe separation angles. Defining Lobe Center and It's Importance to Engine Performance: A Blog. LSA is a way of summing up the relative timing of the intake-valve events (intake opening, intake closing) to the exhaust-valve events (exhaust opening, exhaust closing) in relation to each other, and it's a great approximation of how the engine will operate. Generally speaking, decreasing the lobe centerline angle increases overlap. But nothing comes without a cost, and idle vacuum suffers as LSA shrinks. That was all, and we have already reached the concluding point. 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. whats the difference in how the car will run. Like choosing a cam in general, the key to eliminating separation anxiety is to find the proper balance of driveability and performance. It is the average centerline between both lobes and expressed in degrees ranging from 95 on the extremely narrow/tight side to upward of 120 on the wide end. I think that cam had 110 lobe sep. Im loking at a summit cam with close to the same lift and duration #s but 114 lobe sep. However, the plentiful exhaust overlap (31 degrees) meant there was lots of exhaust dilution at low engine speed and high vacuum. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. This cam split the difference between the 101 and 113 down the middle, and in theory should have walked the line between the results of the last two tests in every waywhich it did. Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. Its also critical that valve overlap is kept to a minimum as the induction system can create a suction that pulls water into the motor, adds Bolander. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. True enough, the tight LSA improved power through the entire rev range, from 3,600 to 6,500 rpm, but the extra power came with a penalty in idle quality. Do you like to go fast? A narrower LCA will increase valve overlap and close the (intake) valve earlier, which explains the typical rougher idler and more midrange behaviour. 15,215. ohio. As you can see in the graph, the 101 LSA cam actually had the highest cranking compression of the batch: 185 psi. If that were the only consideration, the 101 cam is the clear winner. 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree) LSA (green lines) lost considerable torque to the other two cams. Not a HUGE, but a significant difference between 110 and 112, but those are the trends. Again, these are general bits of conventional wisdom. Generally, naturally aspirated engines run narrower lobe separation angles of around 106 to 108 whereas supercharged, turbo or nitrous engines operate with 112 to 114 and higher. You get a better idle, vacuum, and response from a 112o-114o lobe. A cam card with its myriad numbers, acronyms, and abbreviations is one red-pen stroke away from a failed math test. Thanks for the replies, particularly that link Marc, very informative. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! After spending 8 years in plant production engineering, Noah wanted to join Engine Addiction as a key member of all cars specific guides, reviews, repairs, suggestions, and more. from the intake to the exhaust and vise-versa.Thats why a performance cam will usually have a rougher idle than a stock one.