p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262 p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262

Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. Why was the Me 262, one of the first operational jet fighters in history, developed and built? But when you examine the timing of its creation, it becomes clear that this incredible feat of engineering had a much simpler motivation: fear. Does melting sea ices rises global sea level? [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? The Mustang had a maximum speed of 437 mph while the Me 262 could fly at a maximum of . Very good article, one that needs to be repeated again and again. B-17 waist or turret gunners perhaps? defensive maneuver. Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter., A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. [ref: North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren] Its power and grace make it a popular choice for air shows and one heck of a joyride for any lucky pilot lucky enough to take the controls. the 357th FG and ace Capt Ernest C. Feeb Fiebelkorn of the 20th FG, Actual top speed depends on altitude and other factors. The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the first jet fighter to enter operational service. Len Krenzler (actionart.ca) The Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was a German rocket-powered fighter aircraft. What is the purpose of this D-shaped ring at the base of the tongue on my hiking boots? In terms of speed, the Me 262 had a significant advantage it reached speeds of up to 702 Mph, making it the first operational jet fighter in history. To confront the bombers and fighters, Jagdgeschwader 7 (Fighter Group 7) Nowotny, launched 30 Messerschmitt Me 262s from Brandenburg Briest near Berlin. Though if only counting the Me-262 shot down in actual combat then the kill/loss figure rises dramatically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann. jets could be somewhat offset by the much tighter turning radius of However, in 1945, light-weight P-51H Mustangs were ready that could reach 490..500MPH. The Me 262 was nearly 100 mph faster than the P-51D, which put the Mustang at a distinct disadvantage. euronews (en franais) More from MotorTrend. Fair enough, I stand corrected. ground on his back at about a 60-degree angle. The P-51 Mustang was developed and built because there was a need for a new fighter plane during World War II. Lockheed's Kelly Johnson certainly was a genius, Not an academic comparison -- a Mustang and Corsair really were in a dog-fight. C.E. The P-51D Mustang? This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. crept up the fuselage to the cockpit. Personal Data collected: NonePlace of processing: Ireland Privacy PolicyOpt Out. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. MiGs, and they were so much faster. Thank you for your support! We directly support the repository at WW2.ORG, and several other worthwhile projects that add to the historical record. Many were shot down while landing taking off, but even that taken into account the kill/loss ratio is around 6:1. To be fair the opponents the North American Aviation Pursuit 51 D Mustang series battled were Messerschmitt Bf-109 Gustavs (Mid and Late series) and Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Dora series. Place of processing: Ireland , The First Engagement Between a P-51 and an Me 262 and the Death of Luftwaffe Ace Walter Nowotny, I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club. OPTIONAL: External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs. The P-51 is a purebred fighter, agile and fast. Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by Sinster, May 7, 2003. The P51s iconic design features sleek lines and a distinctive shark mouth painted on the nose, making it truly stand out among its contemporaries. Both Me-262 and P-51H could only sustain their top speed for no more than 10 minutes without damaging their engines With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. Why did Sidewinder missiles score so well before Vietnam? Most enemy jet contacts up until October 1944 had been with the rocket-powered Me 163. I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. since he drew the first drawing of the Twin Mustang with which he was awarded a US patent Ziegler's book describes wrecks there were two mounting columns of black smoke.. I fired three short bursts and saw the plane emitting smoke. 262s led by ace Hauptmann Georg-Peter Eder prepared to take off from Achmer to Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. 2 x 20mm Cannons (in addition to existing 4 x 30mm cannons) 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. The Messerschmitt M . They came over the top of Joe, and (E) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 2 x 12.7mm Browning heavy machine guns OR 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. 'This was unusual because of the speed differences between This was made using. Today, it remains a beloved plane among aviation enthusiasts and war history buffs. It may not display this or other websites correctly. P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. Me-262 pilots were supposed to limit themselves to hit-and-run tactics on American bombers, During the WWII, did the German Luftwaffe ever have mixed units of Bf-109s and Me-262s, and if so, which units and/or which airfields? Willard Millikan) 1944 Aluminium, Black, White, Red. Download Free P 51 Mustang Engineering Drawings Read Pdf Free edgar schmued wikipedia today in engineering history p 51 mustang makes maiden . mission of any strength was not mounted until the 7th, when a formation of Me [emphasis added], During March, Me 262 fighter units were able, for the first time, to mount large-scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. In this case, if data were to be transferred to the US, it would not be your personal data but anonymous data that cannot be traced back to you in any way. Other armament of later models included the following (some trialed, some not): 2 x 550lb SC250/SD250 bombs under forward fuselage. The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter . Fw-190 vs P-51. I would say Mustang's shot most down, because there were more of them escorting bombers and ground strafing. The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. Making its operational debut in the summer of 1944, and powered by the Jumo 004 jet engine, the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. Warning: some page functionalities could not work due to your privacy choices, Google Analytics (GA4) is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited (Google). Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu. Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. The desegregation of the armed forces in 1948 and the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s gave us a new world, Brown said. The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Browns P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. Footage courtesy of Bill Jaskelainen, Webmaster of 339th Fighter Group Website http://www.339thfg.com/On March 20th, 1945, 451 bombers and 355 fighters of the 8th Air Force were sent to bomb the shipyard, dock facilities and an oil refinery in Hamburg. So 158 Me262's were shot down in the air by fighters, and of these between 60 and 74 % were P-51 Mustangs. The P-51 could only achieve speeds of up to 437 miles per hour. In fact, the Mustang would prove to be the WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. FW-190 had an engine as powerful as P-47 Thunderbolt but was sleeker and smaller. Its climb-rate was phenomenal, twice as much as a P-51H or F-82, The problem was getting home. tight turn into the attacker at just the precise moment before the jet The final mass-produced version of the Bf 109, the K model, which entered service in the autumn of 1944, had a maximum speed of 452 miles (727 km) per hour and a ceiling of 41,000 feet (12,500 metres). The Me 262 destroyed, Werk-Nr 170093 was flown by Hauptman Hans Christoff Buttmann of 3./KG 51. an equal footing, despite the differences in powerplant and top speed. It depends on what youre looking for. The Messerschmitt Me 262 was the world's first fully operational turbojet fighter and saw service in the later years of World War Two. Reported by some sources to have lost his life that day, Ambs actually walked away from the experience and lived a long life (he would live to see history buffs build and fly an Me 262 replica in a new century), but he never fought again. but it had important innovations from which it excelled. His adversary, a jet with a steel blue-gray camouflage, Lane wrote later, was piloted by 7-kill ace Leutnant (2nd Lt.) Alfred Ambs. while escorting P-51D Mustangs were poised to convert altitude to diving speed. Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262. Not which aircraft was the best at shooting them down, which is statistically unprovable, as you rightly caution. 'dog-fights' between our F-80 jets and the Mustangs, that the '51 could 1:01. [ref: "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" book], real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). Still, after a war in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, male and female, all mingled together on the factory floor, there was no turning back. 1:12. The form of anonymisation is no longer acceptable. from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe. At low-altitude, FW-190 nearly matched P-51. observed hits all over the wings and fuselage.. What sort of strategies would a medieval military use against a fantasy giant? Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. This commission helps us to maintain and improve the forum for the benefit of our users. Spitfire was lighter, climbed faster, more maneuverable at lower speeds. Forced to defend himself, he shot down two P-51 Mustang fighters. Let's find out! The P-51 Mustang or the Me 262 Schwalbe? Discord - https://discord.gg/CVrJQ8aTwitter - Twitter.com/TJ3GamingTwitch - Twitch.com/TJ3GamingInstagram - Instagram.com/TJ3Gaming say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. JeuxVideo.com. "Although our propeller-driven F-51 Mustangs were no match for the Enemy jets forced to stay away, ironically, was goal of escorting Mustangs. It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. > Gloster Meteors of 77 Squadron RA. Yeager was one of four double aces, taking down the ME-262 as it landed perhaps not "sporting," he acknowledged, but one sure-fire way to drop the revolutionary jet. Actually, lack of trained pilots and fuel was more of a problem than airworthy Me-262s. Also Read: North American F-82 Twin Mustang. @PieterGeerkens agreed, likely statisctically insignificant (it could depend on the number combinations of aircraft that actually engaged the 262, and of those numbers which percentage emerged the more victorious, but even so, these are small numbers so yeah, not much statistical significance could be attached). [ref: Ziegler]. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Brown's P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. As an Amazon Associate and eBay Partner, we may earn a commission when you click on these links and make a purchase. German Me-262 pilots reported they could not outrun a P-51 in a dive Airplanes armament and equipment. May 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: PzJgr ], [ 07. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? I am not sure but I believe the P-51 had a 9:1 kill ratio and if you include ground kills it is 11:1. ultimately overwhelmed by multitudes of pouncing Mustangs. The break should start much sooner than is necessary when fighting Me 109s or Fw 190s. 111711, Wright Field (1945) PVT.Snafu. But it was designed in an era when piston engines were king. March 1945 off the Frankfurt Autobahn. (arlingtoncemetry.net)] Its construction was very sturdy, having armored or redundant control links. I would have to say that 3/4's of the jet kills were to P-51 in aerial combat. The words of general Ion Dobran, a former Romanian Bf . View the Cookie Policy. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/L7m7gZlpnKQ, groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. The Me 262 was also faster and more innovative than the P-51. Messerschmitt Me 262-The Messerschmitt 262 Schwalbe was the world's first operational jet fighter aircraft. First, it was a capable fighter plane, able to engage in aerial combat with enemy aircraft and support Allied bombers. 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. Blitz VI. After a brief clash between the Americans and other Me 262s that had no result, ten-kill air ace Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Franz Kulp flew straight at Brown. Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet A quick Google, Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Something else entirely? The ace shot down a four-engined bomber and a P-51 for his 257th Doesn't analytically integrate sensibly let alone correctly. North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51D Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 375 FS, 361 FG Yellowjackets E2-D Detroit Miss (Lt. Urban L. "Ben" Drew) 1944 World War 2 - Bottisham Number Two: P-51D-5-NA Mustang 44-13926, E2 S, assigned to another pilot but flown on this day by Lieutenant Urban L. ("Ben") Drew. May 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], [ 07. the concrete taxiways, one of Eders Jumo engines suffered a flame-out and he koreanwar.org: Just one solo German jet attacking, Compared with Allied fighters of its day, including the British jet-powered Gloster Meteor, it was much faster and . [ref: Flying to the Limit by Peter Caygill] aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. Ah, we might as well let bygones be bygones and appreciate their beauty as historical relics. How high I am not sure. (The figures are not totally reliable. November 1940 . P-38 was a quiet comfortable plane to fly, Dario Leone, Via Mazzini 45, 27030, Langosco (Pavia), VAT IT 02787650189. Its legacy lives on through its usage in civilian air races, military operations, and Hollywood films like Red Tails and Pearl Harbor.. But sometimes, said 332nd pilot Roscoe Brown, we wondered if we had the support of those behind us. The AAF had plenty of officers like Col. (later, Gen.) William Spike Momyer who wrote that black pilots were inferior, and Maj. Gen. Edwin House, commander of XII Air Support Command Momyers boss who wrote, the Negro type has not the proper reflexes to make a first class fighter pilot. Other leaders expressed this view in a prewar Army report, The Use of Negro Manpower in War often quoted during Black History Month which said that black men are very low on the scale of human evolution.. The first jet kill by a Mustang was on October 7, 1944, when Lt. Urban L. Dreq of the 361st Fighter Group shot down two Me 262s while they were taking off from their base. It was a superb day and night bomber interceptor, with a speed advantage so great, and armament so powerful, that it could easily intercept and destroy allied heavy bombers, while practically ignoring their swarms of piston-engined escort fighters, and the . Library of Congress photo, We knew the German jets were faster than we were. Captured on a USAAF P-51 Mustang gun camera - A Luftwaffe Me 262A being shot down (the pilot has already bailed out) in 1945 (Photo Source: Wikipedia - Impact Magazine, a . Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. One a double ace (11.5 kills), the other a triple ace (16.25 kills). 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. For a few moments he monitored their progress: The lead ship was in take-off position on swooped down. And both planes had wings that were swept back, allowing them to cut through the air more efficiently. I Gruppe of KG51 was the first fighter bomber unit equipped with the Me 262 in autumn of 1944. ebay p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt bf 109 a comparision bookmark file p 51 mustang engineering drawings free scalewings sw 51 mini mustang ist endlich flgge You must log in or register to reply here. he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. By clicking on "Customise" you can select which profiling cookies to activate. Equation alignment in aligned environment not working properly. Several things make the Me 262 better than the P-51. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? "Mr. Yingling is a World War II veteran of the Navy and began his Air (f-106deltadart.com)] kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye For this reason, the data transferred to GA will be made anonymous through a proxy system called "My Agile Pixel" which will replace your personal data such as the IP address with anonymous data and therefore not traceable to you. Only in exceptional cases, the IP address will be sent to Google's servers and shortened within the United States. A P-51 of 359th FG (Lt. Col. Murphy) was barely able to pursue it and hit it from 1,000 yards. each of whom have been credited with a shared kill. Browse more videos. or was based on . WinbiTV. Set your Throttles to Full AB and Join The Aviation Geek Club! indicated that his aircraft was hit and on fire, and seconds later he crashed JavaScript is disabled. US F-51 pilots trained against US jets and mentioned that scoring a hit on a MiG-15 would be very difficult: ", [ref: Flying to the Limit by Peter Caygill] Another time, when on patrol, he shot down several US B-17 Flying Fortress bombers that didn't react to repeated warnings. . Welcome to the WWII Forums! Over the German capital, they encountered Me 262s. [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] film, was eventually credited with the destruction of two Me 262s. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. They came over the top of Joe, and P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. Browse more videos. With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. the second Me 262 when he was about 1,000ft off the ground. Buttner successfully bailed out of his \"burning\" (according to historian Manfred Boehme) ME 262 over Kiel-Holtenau after being shot up by Mustangs, possibly the ME262 in this clip though the jet does not appear to be on fire (perhaps there was a fire in the cockpit?). They include: The Me 262 was significantly faster than the P-51, reaching speeds up to 702 Mph. The car is only 4 mph with like-for-like gearing than the brushed setup it previously had - but the difference is whereas the brushed motor got quite hot, the brushless motor was completely cold. 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. Google Fonts is a service used to display font styles operated by Google Ireland Limited and serves to integrate such content into its pages. In most cases, the Spitfire had better performance as an all-purpose fighter. because its jet engines provided far less acceleration than a propeller had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. [ref: Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang] Hans Mehn was pursued by Mustangs back to his base and he shot down as he attempted to land. Even after the Reich introduced the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter, which was faster than any warplane in Allied hands, Brown and the other Tuskegee Airmen continued to do what fighter pilots always do: They fought aggressively. By giving your consent, the data will be sent anonymously, thus protecting your privacy. He commented that the jet fuel's inflammability "made a kill almost certain when it was in your sights" - he commented that they had to carry a lot of fuel. On 18 March 1945, 37 Me 262s of JG 7 intercepted a force of 1,221 bombers and 632 escorting fighters. Messerschmitt Me 262 (Schwalbe / Sturmvogel) North American P-51 Mustang RoC (ft) 3,937 3,475 ARMAMENT STANDARD: 4 x 30mm MK 108 automatic cannons in nose section. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. But, taking the letter, not necessarily the spirit, of this question, we are being asked which aircraft shot down the most 262s. So which aircraft is better? I ordered, Drop your tanks and follow me. Please like, comment, and subscribe.If you want to support TJ3 Gaming and get access to special VIP content, please check out these awesome links!Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/TJ3GamingTJ3 Gaming Merch Store! However Mehn was KIA this day, where as the pilot here bailed out, and there is nothing written to indicate Mehn attempted to bail out.It is ultimately unknown to me who the ME 262 in this clip belonged to. Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. while laminar-winged Mustang was designed to fly optimally at 400+MPH. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. flame come out near the right wing root. via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. The 332nds aircraft had distinctive markings that gave them the name Red Tails. U.S. Air Force photo. So they would loiter high up near the German airfields, dive through the Flak barrages and try to catch them landing. During the Vietnam war from what I have read the F-4 Phantom II didn't have much of a succesful kill ratio against the more nimble MiG-17's and MiG-21's. Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. [ref: Fighting Hitlers Jets by Robert Dorr] For example: the great speed advantage of the The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow") in fighter versions, or Sturmvogel (German: "Storm Bird") in fighter-bomber versions, is a fighter aircraft and fighter-bomber that was designed and produced by the German aircraft manufacturer Messerschmitt.It was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft.. 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings. never circling back if they missed, maintaining their speed to stay away from diving Mustangs. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. over 500 alone are accredited to JG 7 but that is too high. In addition, this site installs Google Analytics in version 4 (GA4) with anonymous data transmission via proxy. The Yak-9? There was black smoke and an explosion.. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. they knew they would be completely outnumbered and Ambs bailed out at 17,000 feet and came to rest entangled in the branches of a tree. There were four I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. as later marks became much faster but handling worsened. 450mph and the jet aircraft could not have been going over 200mph. designed a superior twin-engine fighter. 'This was unusual because of the speed differences between (pushing throttle on a Merlin V-12 engine shoved pilots back into their seats). Let's find out! Many escorting P-51 pilots shot down Me-262s by simply doing a Split-S maneuver In a stroke of luck, famed test pilot and racing champion, Curtis LeMay, met engine designer R.J. Mitchell at an air show and suggested adding the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine to the Mustang. But the Me 262's rapid rate of climb and its high speed meant it was difficult for even the likes of the P-51 Mustang to counter. the east-west runway and the taxiing ship got into position for a formation It is unclear who was flying the Me 262, Wrote Lane: He did not quite fill my gunsight. . He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. section of the enemy aircraft. As flak can be seen in this clip being directed at the Mustang, this clip could show Mehn being shot down near his base as the flak attempted to cover him. P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better? Report. was doing around 350 mph, and the jet was doing 450. However, as with other turbojet engines at the time, the Me 262's engines did not provide sufficient thrust at low air speeds and throttle response was slow, meaning in certain circumstances such as takeoff and landing, the aircraft became a vulnerable target. Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet TJ3 History 35K views 1 year ago P-51 Mustangs Clash with Me-262 Fighters in an Epic High Altitude Dogfight IL2. Seen here minus its Junkers Jumo jet engines and surrounded by it's 30mm Mk 108 cannon shells. 87. Some were destroyed with a tactic known to the Tempest 135 Wing as the "Rat Scramble": Tempests on immediate alert took off when an Me 262 was reported airborne. Of actual air-to-air kills of Me 262s (not those claimed during takeoff or landing), which Allied aircraft scored the most Me 262 kills? So, when attacked by jets, the '51 pilot would have to document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. janua genova. All of a sudden at nine oclock I saw these streaks. Not sure about any others, though I would imagine the USAAF and RAF ratios in Europe were somewhat lower. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"] But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war.